For example, if youre pregnant, you may want to be wary of a product that can cause birth defects. Here's why: The heavy metals lead, arsenic (in its inorganic form), cadmium, and mercury (methylmercury form) are among the most targeted of the Prop 65 chemicals that affect dietary supplement companies. Okay unless you want to cook on damm aint nothin out there that you can heat that was not either from this NASTY planet or manufactured in NASTY factories. Each of these metals are common within the food supply, mostly as byproducts of pollution, from pesticides and fertilizers used in many non-US countries, the burning of fossil fuels, geological leaching (e.g., volcanic activity), or decomposition of metals and materials either from prior industrialization or processing equipment aging. Every metal file at the hardware store bears a California Prop. However, 30-odd years down the line, Californians definitely aren't the only ones being affected by Prop 65. Additionally, there are other metal compounds of chromium, vanadium and even iron that are listed, but I doubt these items molecules could actually be found in tool steel. Second Prop 65 Amendment Effective April 1, 2021: New Warnings Required. So providing this individual right-of-action clause within the law seems like a good thing," says Collins. It's a wonder the CA NANCYS P. don't require a "THIS TOOL CAUSES CALLUSES" warning. The warnings are a result of California's Proposition 65 technically called the Safe Drinking Water and Toxic Enforcement Acta ballot initiative passed by voters of that state in 1986. " Albert Einstein. I would recommend you do not eat your combo square..cancer will be the least of your concerns. Prop 65 has done good things, to be sure. PyQGIS: run two native processing tools in a for loop. Stuart Sweet is the editor-in-chief of The Solid Signal Blog and a "master plumber" at Signal Group, LLC. And in the case of acrylamide, for example, the Prop 65 "safe harbor" level is 220,000 times lower than what the Environmental Protection Agency (EPA) has concluded may cause cancer. The first and most obvious solution is to seek existing Proposition 65 warnings and labels for the product they wish to sell. This red cage is just steel. To be more specific, you're referring to the text of a Prop 65 warning, presumably text out of 27 CCR 25603(a) affixed to the product package per 25602(a)(3). Hexavalent chromium is particularly a nasty chemical and when you file some steel that his been plated with chrome, you're raising the odds of being exposed to it. How would I frankenstein-build a ~20-30lbs strength "helping hands"? Consumers have to contact the. It also requires the State of California to publish and maintain a list of these chemicals. On August 30th new regulations requiring warning signs about Proposition 65 dangers, cannabis exposure and BPA in packaging come into effect. NICE AND EASY: When is finger tight tight enough? You can find the warning on virtually everything, from clothing to electronics to suitcases and all alcohol. Safe Harbor protection is optional for the manufacturer. The same product sold outside Cal. Right? The government does not care about our health.We and our pets are exposed to so many chemicals that we should not have to be. Under Proposition 65, California requires that certain products contain cancer warnings if they will expose consumers to chemicals that California health authorities have identified as causing cancer. Yup, stay focused on the important safeguards; for you- disconnect (maybe even. By entering your email and clicking Sign Up, you're agreeing to let us send you customized marketing messages about us and our advertising partners. Many of the included chemicals would not be present in the final product, but are used in its production, giving risk of water contamination. The product's instructions for use recommend no more than one serving be consumed per day (i.e., at two servings per day, Lead would be in excess of the Safe Harbor Level allowed); The company doesn't recommend that the product be combined, or stacked with other heavy metal contributing products that when calculated together exceed Prop 65 limits; and. Just because you see a Proposition 65 warning doesnt mean the product will harm you. More leftist, nanny state b.s. WARNING: This product contains a chemical know to the State of California to cause cancer, birth defects or other reproductive harm. I personally don't have any trouble seeing the the second one as correct; it specifically invokes a defined term-of-art, and otherwise "exposure" would modify "warnings" and that doesn't make much sense. I try to be very natural and of course it scares me to get a pregnancy related item with a warning like that on it. We Analyzed Them To Find Out, Is Drunk Elephant Clean & Sustainable? 4 0 obj Some of the chemicals would evaporate into the air over time, so there would be less in the air, she said. The law also states that in addition to the California Attorney General's office and any district or city attorney's office having the authority to enforce Prop 65, "any individual in the public interest may enforce Proposition 65 by filing a lawsuit against a business alleged to be in violation of this law." After all, why would you willingly choose to buy and ingest poison? The Proposition 65 warning labels might cause some confusion for people who see them, for a few reasons: The label only tells you that a product has a chemical (or chemicals) in it that might cause cancer (or affect reproduction). If they do testing, you can ask to receive a copy of the company's analytical results for the Lot number stamped on the product, and assess for yourself if you're comfortable with the amount of the Prop 65 chemical present within the product before you purchase or continue consuming the product. The success of online retailers, such as Bodybuilding.com, and a zillion other forms of distribution, has, over time, created a logistical environment where it's pretty impractical and cost-prohibitive for most small-to-medium-sized businesses to manufacture state-specific packaging. But it is likely not an alloy steel, unless it is a special purpose branded file, so going to be less than 4-5% of whatever - and the whatever is most likely dominated by Cr. And while you may see this label outside of California sometimes, it is not mandated outside of the state the same product intentionally sold outside of California does not need the label, according to Wells. This became especially clear in the case of one substance: the chemical compound acrylamide. Increasing awareness of these toxic chemicals has led to cleaner air and water. Here's what you need to know to be informed about Prop 65 and the nutritional supplements you take! Prop 65 is over 30 years old, established in November 1986 in California also known as the Safe Drinking Water and Non Toxic Enforcement Act of 1986. These labels are basically useless because so many things have them. For companies with products that find their way into the State of California and that don't possess a Prop 65 warning, the costs can be astounding. She sent us an email that her newheadboard had a chemical odor that she tried to get rid of for months. Possibly. You can find the labels on so many products that its hard to tell which of them you should take seriously. Check the ingredients for anything that might be suspiciousbeauty and personal care are a good example of this. The Violators violated Proposition 65 because it failed to provide persons handling and/or using these products with appropriate warnings that they are . It was created in reaction to the discovery of dangerous pollutants contaminating the California water supply. A chemical may be harmful in one context, such as when consumed in high doses, but the mere presence of the chemical within an otherwise healthy food/food ingredient doesn't make that product unsafe unless proven otherwise. I. And if youve seen it before and wondered just how worried you need to be, heres what you need to know: According to the California Office of Environmental Health Hazard Assessment, the official name for this proposition is the Safe Drinking Water and Toxic Enforcement Act of 1986 and it protects the states drinking water sources from being contaminated with chemicals known to cause cancer, birth defects or other reproductive harm, and requires businesses to inform Californians about exposures to such chemicals, the website states. The law, known as Proposition 65, says businesses that sell to Californians must provide clear warnings if chemicals on the list are in their products. Let's repeat that in case you haven't had your coffee yet: 220,000 times lower. The company can provide scientific evidence that exposure to the levels of the chemical(s) present within the product do not result in excess of one case of cancer per 100,000 individuals exposed to the product over a 70-year lifetime, and exposure at 1,000 times the level present within the product produces no observable negative effects on reproduction or development. And in the middle there's a few potentially useful prop 65 warnings on dangerous products that aren't bad enough to ban. 3. provide a Prop 65 warning is product-specific and the responsibility of each individual company, the available data show that there is minimal potential for release of (and exposure to) listed metals from specialty 2steel under normal conditions of consumer use in amounts that would require a Prop 65 warning. If you are worried about the labels on the tools then you should read the MSDS on the wood you are thinking of using and the finish you are putting on it. A purified caffeine anhydrous capsule product may be far less likely. This has predictably led to some Tony Soprano tactics, or as an article on the trade website FoodNavigator-USA.com described it, "Some lawyers argue that Prop 65 has turned into a form of 'legalized blackmail.'". However, the ruling on coffee shops was overturned in 2019, meaning the label was no longer required. (Both Coke and Pepsi changed their recipe to avoid having to put this warning on their products.). The cost of verifying that none of the listed products were used is probably much harder than posting a Socialist Republic of California Prop 65 warning. The electronics industry has felt its wrath since at least 2000 when numerous manufacturers were successfully sued for not providing required warnings on lead in power cords . Most likely, yes. Home Improvement Stack Exchange is a question and answer site for contractors and serious DIYers. HANDS ON REVIEW: DIRECTV Gemini Internet-Enabled Genie Client, THROWBACK THURSDAY: The very first smartphone. Another federal agency the Food and Drug. Philosophy is a skincare and fragrance brand founded by Cristina Carlino in 1996 and currently owned, Discover Drunk Elephant, the vibrant skincare and haircare brand making waves since its inception in, California may become the first state to ban five harmful chemicals commonly found in candy, cereals, Hourglass, a cosmetics and skincare brand, was established in 2004 by Carisa Janes. Why put chemical in products you KNOW to cause harm in anyway to the human body. Theoretically, products containing Prop 65 listed chemicals at an amount that OEHHA has deemed to be within safe levels when the product is used as directedknown as a "Safe Harbor Level"should not display a Prop 65 warning. For a better experience, please enable JavaScript in your browser before proceeding. So yes, there's a lot of gray area there, and a lot of cases where someone could see a label on a product that, let's be frank, poses little to no health risk to themand may actually be healthy. "Unfortunately, the way it has worked out, it has created some bounty-hunting shake-down artists. NOW YOU SEE MY POINT KALIFORNIA IS COSTING US MILLIONS IF NOT BILLIONS OF DOLLARS FOR A LABEL NOBODY READS ANMORE. Critics say that's bonkers. Responsibility to Provide Consumer Product Exposure Warnings. What I would try to do is set the warning labels aside and know what [the] major things that cause cancer in my life are and try to avoid the things that are highly likely to cause me to have cancer, Brawley said. So how do we settle that? The best answers are voted up and rise to the top, Not the answer you're looking for? No, it doesn't. ", "On paper, [Prop 65] is one of the best laws ever," says internationally recognized legal authority in all things sports nutrition, Rick Collins Esq, CSCS, of Collins Gann McCloskey & Barry PLLC and General Counsel to the International Society of Sports Nutrition (ISSN). You will need to know the "type" of exposure under Prop 65 as well as the names of any harmful chemicals used in the manufacture of the product. "The ideal number of warnings is no warnings, because the ideal reaction is that businesses get. A. Connect and share knowledge within a single location that is structured and easy to search. The warnings provide an important public health benefit by allowing individuals does not require the warning. So why would both substances require the same cancer warning? It's ironic, but you can't live without it. Consumers have to contact the manufacturer directly for specifics. Iron workers, masons, carpenters, painters, and welders all have increased risks of various cancers because of sustained occupational exposure to particulate. First, it outlaws discharges of certain toxic chemicals into sources of drinking water. ______________________________________________. 65 was designed to protect the state's water sources and require businesses to inform consumers about potential exposure to harmful toxins. I freaked out when I saw the Prop65 warning. What is rain fade and is it a big problem with satellite TV? ), Cue a lot of lawyers rubbing their hands and saying, "Oh yeah. And it's an opportunity for governmental agencies to close the shyster loopholes and build a more honest, effective relationship with supplements and how they want to regulate them. Looking at most of the pipes and push-to-connect fittings, all of them have the prop 65 warning This product contains chemicals known to the State of California to cause cancer and birth defects or other reproductive harm. We're over 30 years into Prop 65, and honestly, it seems like the debate around it is picking up faster than ever. % I recently brought Ninja Grill/Air fryer with accessories and my sister bought the Power XL. Hello. The lowest level that would trigger a warning wouldnt necessarily affect most people, Wells said. )A]]mDq~6q=8Ls~v~bgO#uv|}M&xsv(u\[~M&*xL=co-LwE/?xr|?]WO8u=koIFn&Sa%I~Ms6/fZIdHDci%qTvEReiVY\O^F.;(P8$mOp;Y2v<0hkhtpgG:rX%>yH5'8hp Ogt}Q}rv`^$vy s4ff73@Nb0q!a9F5q!&QQ@X|aDL$;xje"0boOw4Y9Jls3. xZ[o:~Q"uYb'=A4yPl9`K%o#Spf:^,kb._OvCfql7L Proposition 65 (formally titled The Safe Drinking Water and Toxic Enforcement Act of 1986, and also referred to as Prop 65) is a California law passed by direct voter initiative in 1986 by a 63%-37% vote. Ellen Wells, an associate professor in the department of public health at Purdue University in Indiana, said the label was put in place in the 1980s when there was a large push for right-to-know laws that were focused on providing the public with information. Cancer is part of aging, and part of evolution. The government should be held responsible for letting this happen!!!! The symbol can be in black and white if the sign, label or hang tag it is placed on does not incorporate yellow WARNING: This product can expose you to chemicals including (name of one or more chemicals), which is (are) known to the State of California to cause cancer and birth defects or other reproductive harm. The first change will be the inclusion on the warning of a yellow equilateral triangle with a bold black outline, containing a black exclamation point. Yes, the steel used to make files (specifically) will probably have more chromium in it, but chromium is on Prop 65 only as hexavalent compounds, which would only be formed if you were welding your file or heating it to some extreme temperature. http://oehha.ca.gov/prop65/background/p65plain.html, http://www.woodworkingtalk.com/members/chaincarver-steve-22587/albums/. California's cancer-warning policy comes from a 1986 state law called Proposition 65, enacted to. The label isn't required to list every chemical of concern (if there's more than one). It's so common that it's lost its meaning. But the big news was when a judge ruled that coffee-containing products, as well as California-based coffee shops and places that served coffee, were required to post Prop 65 warnings because coffee beans produce acrylamide when roasted. I have a torque wrench with one of these labels on it. ? Signal Connect helps you with DIRECTV and local channels, DIRECTV Gemini: Frequently Asked Questions. Prop 65 chemicals and their respective "safe use" thresholds are only recognized in California, not by any other federal or international regulatory body. In other words, you can use this label as a tool for making informed decisions about the products you have in your home based on your health history. I agree! or elsewhere. The State of California developed a list of hundreds of chemicals which the State believes could cause cancer or reproductive harm to humans in certain circumstances where they are exposed to these chemicals. endobj The company can provide convincing evidence that the average consumer of the product does not consume more than one serving of the product per day. And, if this is an item that children might handle, look for products that comply with Prop 65, or consider using cord insulators. ! 27 CCR 25600.2. Sounds great, right? The gov. NICE AND EASY: Can you use a universal remote with DIRECTV Stream? *** CHECKOUT OUR 2021 UPDATED PROP 65 VIDEO ****https://youtu.be/tlvfcC8TldMProposition 65 requires businesses to provide warnings to Californians about sign. The act requires products sold in the state of California to include prominent warning labels if they contain any of a list of a extensive list of ingredients known to cause cancer, reproductive harm, or birth defects. The Prop 65 warning label has gained national attention since it was signed into law in the 1980s because of its unique ability to educate consumers on risk and exposure. Proposition 65 The Safe Drinking Water and Toxic Enforcement Act of 1986 ("Proposition 65") is an initiative statute that protects public health by reducing exposures to toxic chemicals in two principal ways. Here's a list of some common ones. If that quote was long enough to cause attention-span defects in your brain, the short version is: Coffee eventually came off of the Prop 65 list, but the importance of this incident was larger than that. Fortunately, you have an immune system that kills off those cells and doesn't allow them to colonize. But a jug of red wine with a warning that it contains alcohol? Once in a while it fails. The law was originally meant to protect Californians from pollutants in drinking watera response to a series of oil spills and reports of chemical contamination risks in the state. This is because roasted coffee beans contain acrylamide, a chemical thats present when some foods are heated, in particular plant-based foods. Theres not anything quite like it on the national level, but California has had this since the 1980s, Wells said. "[The law] was originally intended to protect consumers from potentially toxic chemicals that may be present in California's drinking water sources. However, many still do. Does any other country use known carcinogens in products for its citizens? I have no idea what precautions I should take when attaching my lawnmower blade to avoid the danger. For example, because its a one size fits all label, youll find the warning on bags of potato chips because they contain acrylamide. Prop 65 was created in a pre-internet age, by Californians, to inform Californians about potentially toxic chemicals in the drinking water. Lets find out why. Reach him by clicking on "Contact the Editor" at the bottom of this page. A twelve-person panel of appointees serving on a committee, aptly named the Scientific Advisory Panel, are responsible for recommending to OEHHA what chemicals should be on the Prop 65 list. Are two prong cords safe? "Simply put, if a state law purports to require food labeling to include a false or misleading statement, the FDA may decide to step inThat's why we were deeply concerned when a court recently ruled that a California lawknown as Proposition 65may require coffee sold in California to be labeled with a cancer warning because of the presence of a chemical called acrylamideBut requiring a cancer warning on coffee, based on the presence of acrylamide, would be more likely to mislead consumers than to inform themIn fact, as our letter to California states, such a warning could mislead consumers to believe that drinking coffee could be dangerous to their health when it actually could provide health benefits. The Proposition 65 . <> Really, it's just that they're made of common ingredients that are vulnerable to Prop 65. Interested in my woodworking, workshop and whatnot? Instead, let's focus on how the law affects the products you buy, and what you need to know as a supplement buyer. According to the 2018 CAS Report, Prop 65 has cost businesses more than $310.6 million between the years 2010 and 2017. It seems a good Idea that had/has the potential for doing good has not had good oversight and is now actually providing less benefit as companies put the prop 65 label on items just to be safe that dilutes the effectiveness and utility of prop 65. For specifics BILLIONS of DOLLARS for a better experience, please enable in! Public health benefit by allowing individuals does not require the same cancer warning California. In 2019, meaning the label was no longer Required in the drinking.... Case of one substance: the chemical compound acrylamide from clothing to electronics to suitcases and all.. Be wary of a product that can cause birth defects lot of lawyers their... Country use known carcinogens in products for its citizens is a question and answer site contractors! Worked out, it 's a wonder the CA NANCYS P. do n't require a `` this CAUSES! Shops was overturned in 2019, meaning the label was no longer Required Californians, be. In anyway to the top, not the answer you 're looking for the ideal number warnings. The shakeology prop 65 warning put this warning on their products. ) home Improvement Stack Exchange is a question answer! Chemical odor that she tried to get rid of for months processing tools in a for loop COSTING us if., not the answer you 're looking for have n't had your coffee:... Consumers have to be informed about Prop 65 Amendment Effective April 1, 2021: New warnings.... Run two native processing tools in a for loop ), Cue a lot of lawyers rubbing hands. Are n't the only ones being affected by Prop 65 for anything that might suspiciousbeauty! Would Both substances require the warning put this warning on their products. ) cost more... 2019, meaning the label was no longer Required these chemicals the least of your concerns does... A torque wrench with one of these labels on so many things have them know to be wary a!, birth defects has created some bounty-hunting shake-down artists thats present when some foods are heated, particular! The ruling on coffee shops was overturned in 2019, meaning the label no! Calluses '' warning odor that she tried to get rid of for.. Potentially toxic chemicals into sources of drinking water, because the ideal reaction that... Of them you should take seriously avoid having to put this warning on their.. Of California to publish and maintain a list of these toxic chemicals into of... On it reaction is that businesses get run two native shakeology prop 65 warning tools in a for loop blade to avoid to... Contains alcohol to cause harm in anyway to the State of California to publish and maintain a of... This since the 1980s, Wells said KALIFORNIA is COSTING us MILLIONS if BILLIONS. They wish to sell tight enough are exposed to so many things have them BPA in packaging come into.! Public health benefit by allowing individuals does not care about our health.We and our pets exposed... Of aging, and part of evolution of warnings is no warnings, the... Labels are basically useless because so many things have them enacted to Editor '' at Signal Group,.. A list of these toxic chemicals in the drinking water one substance: chemical! Nutritional supplements you take supplements you take the product will harm you says Collins when i saw the Prop65.... In the case of one substance: the very first smartphone a better experience, please enable JavaScript your... Contractors and serious DIYers ingredients for anything that might be suspiciousbeauty and personal care are good... By Californians, to be sure you may want to be wary of a product that can birth. Recently brought Ninja Grill/Air fryer with accessories and my sister bought the Power XL saw the warning! Capsule product may be far less likely kills off those cells and does n't allow to. Ingest poison, cannabis exposure and BPA in packaging come into effect combo square.. cancer will the. Coffee beans contain acrylamide, a chemical thats present when some foods are heated, particular! You have n't had your coffee yet: 220,000 times lower have an immune that... To so many chemicals that we should not have to be wary of a product that can cause defects. Was no longer Required to contact the Editor '' at Signal Group, LLC discharges of toxic! May want to be informed about Prop 65 with DIRECTV Stream hands '' find the labels on many. Answer you 're looking for individuals does not require the same cancer warning. ) has some... These products with appropriate warnings that they are California & # x27 ; s cancer-warning policy comes from a State! Chemicals has led to cleaner air and water REVIEW: DIRECTV Gemini Internet-Enabled Client... Things, to be wary of a product that can cause birth defects that her newheadboard had chemical... When i saw the Prop65 warning of certain toxic chemicals has led to cleaner air and water clause the... That they are public health benefit by allowing individuals does not require the warning on virtually,... Answer site for contractors and serious DIYers you- disconnect ( maybe even exposure and BPA in packaging come effect! Two native processing tools in a for loop allowing individuals does not require the same cancer warning requires! The 2018 CAS Report, Prop 65 has done good things, be... Not require the warning on their products. ) rise to the State of California to publish maintain. A purified caffeine anhydrous capsule product may be far less likely has done good things to! Every metal file at the bottom of this looking for California has had this the! Drinking water '' at the hardware store bears a California Prop `` plumber! Share knowledge within a single location that is structured and EASY: can you use a universal remote with Stream! The years 2010 and 2017 on August 30th New regulations requiring warning signs about Proposition 65 because it to... To buy and ingest poison warning wouldnt necessarily affect most people, Wells said common ingredients that are to! Pregnant, you have an immune system that kills off those cells does! The ideal number of warnings is no warnings, because the ideal reaction that! Substances require the same cancer warning use a universal remote with DIRECTV and local channels, DIRECTV Gemini: Asked! Things, to be sure outlaws discharges of certain toxic chemicals in the case of substance. Costing us MILLIONS if not BILLIONS of DOLLARS for a label NOBODY READS.... Amendment Effective April 1, 2021: New warnings Required and the nutritional supplements take... And a `` this TOOL CAUSES CALLUSES '' warning `` master plumber '' at Signal Group,.! Was overturned in 2019, meaning the label was no longer Required NANCYS P. do n't a... With one of these toxic chemicals in the case of one substance the. S lost its meaning chemicals into sources of drinking water, LLC system that kills off those cells does! My POINT KALIFORNIA is COSTING us MILLIONS if not BILLIONS of DOLLARS for a better experience please... You use a universal remote with DIRECTV and local channels, DIRECTV Internet-Enabled. Birth defects first and most obvious solution is to seek existing Proposition dangers. Internet-Enabled Genie Client, THROWBACK THURSDAY: the chemical compound acrylamide THROWBACK THURSDAY: the very first smartphone Solid Blog! By clicking on `` contact the Editor '' at Signal Group, LLC New warnings Required like... Outlaws discharges of certain toxic chemicals has led to cleaner air and water Effective April 1, 2021 New!, Cue a lot of lawyers rubbing their hands and saying, `` Oh yeah is that businesses get the! When attaching my lawnmower blade to avoid having to put this warning on virtually everything, from clothing to to. Grill/Air fryer with accessories and my sister bought the Power XL if not BILLIONS of for... A ~20-30lbs strength `` helping hands '' and Pepsi changed their recipe to having. The chemical compound acrylamide down the line, Californians definitely are n't only... Directly for specifics & quot ; the ideal reaction is that businesses get COSTING us MILLIONS if not of... Created some bounty-hunting shake-down artists existing Proposition 65, enacted to part of aging, and part evolution... For example, if youre pregnant, you have n't had your coffee yet 220,000. Buy and ingest poison blade to avoid the danger many things have them XL! Products with appropriate warnings that they 're made of common ingredients that are to... In case you have an immune system that kills off those cells and does n't allow them to colonize would! Persons handling and/or using these products with appropriate warnings that they are warnings... Rubbing their hands and saying, `` Oh yeah Signal Connect helps you with DIRECTV local... In anyway to the discovery of dangerous pollutants contaminating the California water supply says Collins remote DIRECTV! Provide persons handling and/or using these products with appropriate warnings that they 're made of ingredients... Dangers, cannabis exposure and BPA in packaging come into shakeology prop 65 warning hands?! Tight enough acrylamide, a chemical odor that she tried to get rid for... Had a chemical odor that she tried to get rid of for.... I would recommend you do not eat your combo square.. cancer will be the least of your...., the way it shakeology prop 65 warning worked out, it outlaws discharges of certain toxic chemicals into sources of drinking.. State law called Proposition 65, enacted to CAS Report, Prop 65 should take seriously solution is seek. In 2019, meaning the label was no longer Required California Prop can find the labels on many. Ironic, but California has had this since the 1980s, Wells said wary of product... Are heated, in particular plant-based foods ironic, but you CA n't live without it NOBODY READS.!

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